Pages

Tuesday, August 31, 2010

What Happens to Grad Students

In honor of a fresh new batch of grad students here at CU (one of whom is my new office-mate) and some great data released by the American Institute of Physics Statistical Research Center, here's a quick look at what happens to graduate students on average in physics and astronomy programs across the country over the past decade.

Overall the number of incoming graduate students in physics and astronomy programs has risen by an average of 1.5% per year, which is only slightly faster than the overall population growth rate in the US of 1.2%.  The growth rates for PhD's awarded in physics and astronomy were 3.9% and 3.2% respectively, while the growth rates for terminal master's degrees was 2.7% in physics and a whooping 4.8% in astronomy (although that corresponds to an increase of 1.2 terminal master's degrees in astronomy per year).  In graphical form, here are the trends:

As you probably noticed, the most interesting feature in both plots isn't the trend, rather it's something consistent from year to year.  For both physics and astronomy programs, the total number of degrees awarded is only about three-quarters of the number of incoming students.  More precisely, if we assume that the grad student population is divergence-free and account for the overall trend in enrollment, the outcomes for physics and astronomy grad students are shown below.










For both types of programs, a little less than 30% of incoming graduate students will not earn a graduate degree.  Since the AIP only tracks American programs, there may be people who transfer to a foreign program, but for the most part there is a clear and sizable attrition in our graduate programs.  Interestingly while distribution between PhD's and Master's degrees varies considerably between physics and astronomy programs, the number leaving without a degree is nearly constant.

So what happens to the bright-eyed 1st year students?  At least for some of them nothing in the way of academic degrees.

****************************************

Update:  The AIP data gives a break-down by school of the incoming grad students and graduate degrees awarded, but only for 2009.  Here is a list of the program that had at least twice as many plus 1 (to account for noise) incoming students at degrees awarded in 2009.  Of course with only 1 year of data there is a lot of noise here, but it might give an idea of the types of programs that contribute to the nearly 30% attrition rate.  Program with more than 15 incoming grad students are in bold.

In order by state (alphabetically) and then alphabetical order, the physics programs are:  U. of Alabama-Birmingham, UC-Davis, San Jose State, Yale, U. of Central Florida, Florida A&M, Idaho State, IUPUI, U. of Louisville, Louisiana State-Baton Rouge, U. of New Orleans, U. of Maine, Clark, UMass-Amherst, UMass-Dartmouth, Michigan Tech, Mississippi State, U. of Nebraska-Lincoln, UNLV, Syracuse, North Carolina Central, Wake Forest, Ohio U., Portland State, Carnegie Mellon, U. of Puerto Rico-Mayaguez, U. of Puerto Rico-Rio Piedras, South Dakota School of Mines, U. of North Texas, Southern Methodist, Texas Tech, U. of Texas-Arlington, U. of Texas-San Antonio, Brigham Young, George Mason, Hampton, Old Dominion, U. of Virginia, U. of Wisconsin-Madison, U, of Wyoming

In the same order but with bold for program admitting more than 7, the astronomy programs are:  Yale, Florida Institute of Technology, U. of Virginia, U. of Washington

No immediate trends pop out of that list at me.  Anybody else see anything?

45 comments:

  1. Nick, very interesting. I'm very interested that so many don't get degrees at all. I know at Irvine it is pretty standard that somewhere between ~10-20% won't be able to get past the comprehensive exam depending on the class. However, the majority of those, as far as I can tell, get a masters before leaving. So I wonder, assuming Irvine is normal, where we would be losing ~30% receiving no degree at all.

    I also find it interesting how constant the data is. On one hand you would think this is good so that it stays constant with population growth, but if you think there are too many or too few physicists in the word, I guess the world won't be changing any time soon.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Joe,

    I too was surprised by the large percentage that don't receive degrees. In my department at CU we lose roughly 10% to our first comprehensive exam (you must pass one of the two comps exams to get a Masters) and about 5% in the first year, but that simply means that there must be other programs that lose far more than CU or UC-Irvine. I have heard that some programs intentionally admit more students than they can support to get more TA's - maybe those places (if they exist) make up the difference. Alternately, maybe some less-prestigious departments have much higher attrition.

    ReplyDelete
  3. My first-year class was about 30 or so--pretty large. Of those 30, perhaps around 10 have graduated, 15 have left (with or without a master's degree), and 5 are still working on it. The uncertainty of each of those numbers is about +/- 5.

    I myself walked away from the PhD program with a master's degree. Now I'm teaching pre-algebra to bright 6th- and 7th-graders at an amazing charter school. I'm having way too much fun.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I can at least comment on Yale's astro program. We've gone from matriculating 1-3 people per year, to about 5-7 per year. So, that at least explains why only 1 or 2 graduate, but so many more come in. In my 5 years here, only 1 (out of about 25) failed the qual, and only 2 didn't graduate with the Ph.D. No one has left without at least a Masters. So at least here, it's small number statistics, which, of course, astronomers do best at!

    Of course, the physics department is a totally different story. I think they do admit more than they plan on graduating.

    ReplyDelete
  5. First of all I would like to say awesome blog!
    I had a quick question that I'd like to ask if you don't mind.
    I was curious to know how you center yourself and clear your head before writing.
    I have had a tough time clearing my thoughts in getting my thoughts out.

    I truly do enjoy writing but it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes are generally wasted
    simply just trying to figure out how to begin. Any recommendations or hints?

    Thanks!

    Also visit my site Dominos Vouchers

    ReplyDelete
  6. Fine way of describing, and nice piece of writing to take data about
    my presentation focus, which i am going to deliver in university.


    My website - Dominos 50 Off Voucher

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hello i am kavin, its my first occasion to commenting anyplace,
    when i read this post i thought i could also create comment due to this
    sensible article.

    Also visit my weblog ... Wolfandassociates.Com

    ReplyDelete
  8. First off I want to say superb blog! I had a quick question that I'd like to ask if you do not mind. I was interested to find out how you center yourself and clear your mind prior to writing. I've had a difficult time clearing my thoughts in getting my ideas out there.
    I do enjoy writing however it just seems like the first 10 to
    15 minutes are usually wasted simply just trying to figure out how to begin.
    Any suggestions or hints? Thank you!

    Here is my web blog ... Car insurance

    ReplyDelete
  9. Pretty nice post. I simply stumbled upon your blog and wished to say that
    I've truly loved surfing around your blog posts. After all I'll be subscribing for your feed and I
    am hoping you write again very soon!

    Also visit my web page ... Centr.Md

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi everyone, it's my first pay a visit at this web site, and post is really fruitful for me, keep up posting these articles or reviews.

    Look into my web site :: dominos pizza vouchers

    ReplyDelete
  11. I do accept as true with all of the concepts you have offered on your post.
    They are very convincing and can definitely work.
    Nonetheless, the posts are too short for starters. May just you please lengthen them a little from subsequent time?
    Thanks for the post.

    Here is my weblog - Vouchers uk

    ReplyDelete
  12. Keep on working, great job!

    Look into my webpage :: Funky jewellery

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi there friends, nice paragraph and fastidious
    arguments commented at this place, I am genuinely enjoying by these.


    Here is my site ... Fashion Jewellery online

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hello i am kavin, its my first time to commenting anyplace, when
    i read this article i thought i could also make comment due
    to this sensible paragraph.

    Here is my website; http://www.shiur.com

    ReplyDelete
  15. At this moment I am going away to do my breakfast, later than having my breakfast coming again to read
    other news.

    My web blog; www.Campusjoints.com

    ReplyDelete
  16. Thanks to my father who told me regarding this web site, this weblog is in fact
    amazing.

    My web page ... fashion jewellery online

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm impressed, I must say. Seldom do I encounter a blog that's both educative
    and interesting, and let me tell you, you've hit the nail on the head. The issue is something too few people are speaking intelligently about. Now i'm very happy I stumbled across this in my hunt
    for something relating to this.

    Have a look at my web site - Online Dominos Vouchers

    ReplyDelete
  18. I'm impressed, I must say. Seldom do I encounter a blog that's both educative and interesting, and let me tell you, you've hit the nail on the head. The issue is something too few people are speaking intelligently about. Now i'm
    very happy I stumbled across this in my hunt for something relating to this.


    Take a look at my web-site; Online Dominos Vouchers

    ReplyDelete
  19. Pretty! This was a really wonderful article. Many thanks for supplying
    this info.

    Check out my blog post; Dominos Voucher Codes 50 off

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hi there, I do believe your web site might be having browser compatibility problems.

    When I look at your website in Safari, it looks
    fine however when opening in I.E., it has some overlapping issues.
    I just wanted to give you a quick heads up! Aside from that,
    fantastic site!

    Also visit my blog: Vouchers Dominos

    ReplyDelete
  21. Asking questions are truly nice thing if you are not understanding anything completely,
    however this paragraph gives fastidious understanding
    even.

    Feel free to visit my page ... funky jewellery uk

    ReplyDelete
  22. Undeniably believe that which you said. Your favorite justification seemed to be on the web the simplest
    thing to consider of. I say to you, I definitely get irked even as other people think about
    concerns that they plainly don't recognize about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and also defined out the whole thing without having side effect , other people can take a signal. Will likely be again to get more. Thank you

    my website - www.iplaygosports.com

    ReplyDelete
  23. Do you mind if I quote a few of your posts as long as I provide credit
    and sources back to your blog? My blog is in the very same niche as
    yours and my users would really benefit from some of the information you provide
    here. Please let me know if this okay with you. Cheers!


    Also visit my web page :: 2013 car Insurance Calculator

    ReplyDelete
  24. Great post. I was checking constantly this blog
    and I'm impressed! Extremely useful information specifically the ultimate section :) I care for such information much. I was looking for this certain information for a very lengthy time. Thanks and good luck.

    my blog Freebies Uk

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hi, i think that i saw you visited my website so i came to “return the favor”.
    I am trying to find things to enhance my site!I suppose its ok
    to use a few of your ideas!!

    Visit my weblog :: Dominos Uk vouchers

    ReplyDelete
  26. I'm really impressed with your writing skills as well as with the layout on your blog. Is this a paid theme or did you customize it yourself? Either way keep up the excellent quality writing, it is rare to see a great blog like this one today.

    my webpage Free skate stuff

    ReplyDelete
  27. I used to be recommended this blog via my cousin.
    I am now not certain whether this put up is written through him as no
    one else know such certain approximately my problem. You're amazing! Thanks!

    Feel free to surf to my webpage :: Certified Management Accountant Salary

    ReplyDelete
  28. Good day! This is kind of off topic but I need some advice from
    an established blog. Is it very hard to set up your own blog?
    I'm not very techincal but I can figure things out pretty quick. I'm
    thinking about setting up my own but I'm not sure where to begin. Do you have any points or suggestions? With thanks

    my page; care home finance

    ReplyDelete
  29. I do not even understand how I ended up right here, however I assumed this submit was great.

    I don't recognize who you're however certainly you are going to
    a famous blogger for those who are not already.
    Cheers!

    My webpage ... http://Www.wolfandassociates.com/author/CFISaul

    ReplyDelete
  30. Magnificent site. Lots of useful information here. I am sending it to some buddies ans
    also sharing in delicious. And certainly, thank you
    for your effort!

    Also visit my web-site; Best Inexpensive Android Tablet

    ReplyDelete
  31. Unquestionably believe that which you stated. Your favorite reason appeared to be on the internet the simplest thing
    to be aware of. I say to you, I certainly get
    annoyed while people consider worries that they just do
    not know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top
    and also defined out the whole thing without having side-effects
    , people could take a signal. Will probably be back to get more.
    Thanks

    Have a look at my website: market Research companies in london

    ReplyDelete
  32. Thank you for the auspicious writeup. It in fact
    was a amusement account it. Look advanced to more added agreeable from you!
    However, how could we communicate?

    My weblog ... Http://Www.Vaccineeducationonline.Org/

    ReplyDelete
  33. Eхсellent post howeνer , I was wοndering if you coulԁ write
    a littе mоre on this topic? I'd be very grateful if you could elaborate a little bit further. Appreciate it!

    my web-site; http://Www.ukinsurancewise.co.Uk

    ReplyDelete
  34. Very good infο. Lucky me I recently found yοur wеbsіte by аccіdent (stumblеupon).
    I havе sаved as a fаvoritе for latеr!



    my рage: www.ukinsurancewise.co.uk

    ReplyDelete
  35. What's up to all, it's genuinely а рleasant for me to go to
    ѕeе thiѕ website, іt сontаinѕ useful Infοrmаtion.


    Ηere іs my websitе: Any Driver Car Insurance

    ReplyDelete
  36. I am extremely impressed with your writing skills and also with the layout on your
    weblog. Is this a paid theme or did you customize it
    yourself? Either way keep up the excellent quality writing, it's rare to see a nice blog like this one these days.

    My page - %anchor_text%

    ReplyDelete
  37. My readership is growing-slowly-but it puts a smile on my face to
    know that someone out there is actually reading me.
    Secondly it truly is entirely absolutely free
    to make use of. This is because it will make it a lot easier for you to have your
    blogs published over the internet.

    Here is my site; WP Social Press

    ReplyDelete
  38. I neeԁeԁ to thank you fоr thiѕ gοod reаd!
    ! I сеrtainly loved еvеry bіt of it.
    I've got you saved as a favorite to look at new stuff you post…

    my web site: losing weight after 50

    ReplyDelete
  39. I’ll right аwaу snatсh yоur rѕs аs Ι can not
    to find уour e-mail subscгiption hyρerlink or nеωslettеr serviсe.
    Dο yοu’ve аny?
    Pleasе let me unԁerstand іn order that I may subscribe.

    Thanks.

    Μy page; exercise

    ReplyDelete
  40. What’s up, just wantеd to tеll you, I enјoyеd this pοst.
    It waѕ funny. Keep on posting!

    Also vіѕit mу blog ρost :: organic
    potting soil (topbestarticle.com)

    ReplyDelete
  41. Great website, keep it up!

    Ηere is my blоg losing weight after 50 with pilates

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hi, і thinκ that i ѕaw you viѕiteԁ mу sіte so
    i cаme to “rеturn the faνor”.I аm trуing to find things to enhаnce
    my wеbsite!ӏ suppoѕe іts οk to uѕe a fеw of your idеas!
    !

    mу web sіte :: gаrdening (http://thenxtbuzz.com)

    ReplyDelete
  43. This is the perfeсt blog for anyboԁу who reallу wants tο fіnd
    out about this topiс. You undеrѕtand a whole lot іts
    аlmost tough to argue with you (not that I really
    would want to…HaHa). You cеrtainly put a new ѕpin
    on a subject that's been written about for many years. Great stuff, just excellent!

    my website: gardening tips

    ReplyDelete
  44. Yeah, one trend -- Yale is in both! Not at all a good sign for the school, methinks.

    ReplyDelete

To add a link to text:
<a href="URL">Text</a>