tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post6785154037311082553..comments2024-03-27T20:43:05.862-07:00Comments on The Eternal Universe: Possible explanation for freezing hot water pipesJoseph Smidthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02583891162785742138noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-75072148808070639772014-10-20T13:55:05.840-07:002014-10-20T13:55:05.840-07:00An interesting discussion is definitely worth comm...An interesting discussion is definitely worth comment.<br />I do think that you need to write more about this subject matter, it <br />may not be a taboo subject but usually fllks don't speak about <br />such issues. To the next! Best wishes!!<br /><br />Also visit myy blog post - <a href="http://sasnet2.com.br/test/php/php_info.php?a%5B%5D=online+watches+for+men+%28%3Ca+href%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Farchotype.co%2Fwordpress%2Fthe-standard-the-model-the-archotype%2F%3Esimply+click+the+up+coming+site%3C%2Fa%3E%29" rel="nofollow">IWC</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-48223016660399911162010-12-13T23:56:01.426-08:002010-12-13T23:56:01.426-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-77786616725818118702010-12-13T06:53:33.873-08:002010-12-13T06:53:33.873-08:00Well, I'm not really into the science of froze...Well, I'm not really into the science of frozen hot water pipes because I always have my good ol' professional plumbers to the rescue. They heed my call whenever I have problems with the pipes in my house here in Atlanta. Water heater replacement, sewer line inspection, and drain cleaning are some of the other services that they have already done for me.<br /><br />Sure, I've heard some of the explanations you've cited here, but being too technical about it is not my cup of tea. I leave the thinking and solving to the experts. Me, I do the calling and the paying. It's pretty simple, actually. Whenever I have problems with my water heater, Atlanta's premiere plumbers come and fix things. No theories, no complex explanations.Nickyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08640357961357135471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-85881775116440463552010-11-30T18:23:37.818-08:002010-11-30T18:23:37.818-08:00One more cherished belief dashed by science. Sigh!...One more cherished belief dashed by science. Sigh!James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-10102973162489784672010-11-30T13:26:30.279-08:002010-11-30T13:26:30.279-08:00Not all of the experiments were done in open conta...Not all of the experiments were done in open containers. It's true that the freezing times depend dramatically on all sorts of parameters (like you said, the location of the pipes, also the container material, dissolved gasses, etc). <br /><br />I really don't know why the hot water pipes were freezing before the cold water pipes. It might well have to do with pipe placement. That would make perfect sense. However, I wouldn't take us not hearing about an effect to mean that it is no longer observed nor talked about. I also don't remember hearing much about this in the last decade or so. However, I would interpret that to mean that given the environment I'm in (major research university), I'm less likely to hear people bring up things like pipes freezing (especially if they don't understand it). (Honestly, I don't remember the last time I heard a professor talk about home repair. Also, most professors I know really avoid admitting that they don't have a good explanation for something unless it's related to their research.) Also, about a decade or so ago, I was in a small-town high school. There we would talk about all sorts of things (including home repairs), <i>especially</i> if we didn't understand them. I really think it may still be considered an open case.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02573106204390814039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-75657558573553526122010-11-30T13:06:49.201-08:002010-11-30T13:06:49.201-08:00Ah, yes the Mpemba effect, I have heard of that. T...Ah, yes the Mpemba effect, I have heard of that. The only problem with that is the experiment was done with open containers of water in a freezer, with convection and air currents and other effects. The case with the pipes is different because they are closed and do not have air currents directly affecting the water. The Mpemba experiment quickly becomes a very complex multi-parameter experiment and the unaccounted for parameters become crucial to the overall success of the experiment.<br /><br />In considering whether or not hot water freezes before cold water it is important to keep in mind the not-so-obvious parameters (such as the location of the pipes) that may determine the entire outcome.<br /><br />Again, I am from Arizona and I have never actually seen (or had to deal with) frozen pipes, but my guess is that there are just enough houses out there with the retrofitted pipes that it makes for a good urban legend. I also note that I have never heard of ONLY the hot water pipes freezing for several years, hence my thought that the problem was generally solved with the new building standards (not the problem of pipes freezing, but the problem of ONLY the hot water pipes freezing).Quantumleap42https://www.blogger.com/profile/16711817313734546305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4212234230338648875.post-70241255239825432622010-11-30T12:14:10.196-08:002010-11-30T12:14:10.196-08:00That's interesting. A lot of times some "...That's interesting. A lot of times some "scientific" phenomena have much simpler (and much more human) explanations. <br /><br />However, on this one, it appears that I might have to interject. The effect appears to be well-documented. It is called the <a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Mpemba+effect&btnG=Search&as_sdt=400000&as_ylo=&as_vis=0" rel="nofollow">Mpemba </a><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Mpemba+effect&sa=N&tab=sw" rel="nofollow">effect</a>, and experiments have been reported in a number of peer-reviewed journals. Now, some journals are better than others, and most of the articles that I found were in the <a href="http://ajp.aapt.org/" rel="nofollow">American Journal of Physics</a> by the AAPT or <a href="http://iopscience.iop.org/" rel="nofollow">IOPScience</a>, so I still can't claim absolute physical determination, but it appears to be a good deal more than urban legend. <br /><br />Some potentially useful links/references: <br />http://iopscience.iop.org/0031-9120/4/3/312/pdf/0031-9120_4_3_312.pdf<br />http://iopscience.iop.org/0031-9120/14/7/312/pdf/0031-9120_14_7_312.pdf<br />http://ajp.aapt.org/resource/1/ajpias/v74/i6/p514_s1<br />http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/AJPIAS-ft/vol_74/iss_6/514_1.html<br />http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/PhysFAQ/General/hot_water.html<br />N.E. Dorsey, The Properties of Ordinary Water Substance, Reinhold, Scranton, PA, 1940.<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect -- references at the bottom<br /><br />I really like how one author put it: <br />"Our point is that the reaction to an experiment depends significantly on how well the experiment matches accepted theoretical preconceptions. Because experimental claims can be in error, scientists do not accept all published claims. Although few scientists would find this statement controversial, it is quite different than the impression one obtains from science textbooks and from what appears in certain positivistic views of science. The Mpemba effect provides a lovely case for considering these issues, because although it provokes skepticism, it has been observed in multiple experiments; yet, in support of the skeptical position, we will see that the experimental results are not consistent and that the theoretical situation is still unsettled."<br /><br />I'm not saying I'm advocating this idea, but it appears to be more than just an urban legend, so it would not be wise to blow it off so quickly (especially if you're an experimentalist ;) ).Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02573106204390814039noreply@blogger.com